I have been putting this post off for a while now because it’s deeply personal. Maybe even more than opening up about my marriage issues, because this post is about who I AM, not what I’m struggling with. But after a few talks with a few friends about things such as harassment by fellow Muslims and the permissibility of nutmeg in Islam (for real, it’s a seriously debated issue), I don’t think I can put it off any longer.
I may have mentioned here before that I was experiencing a sort of crisis of faith. For a while I felt stuck, unsure of what to believe or why to believe it. I questioned, I struggled, and at times considered throwing the baby out with the bath water so to speak. It was all just too much for me, especially when I was knee-deep in emotional garbage involving my marital situation. But then something happened. I don’t know what…but it happened.
Maybe it’s all a part of the process of separating myself from a person who at one point was a part of me, maybe it’s growing up and figuring out who I am without the influence of another person and his ideas of who I should be. Maybe it was meeting people who encourage me to be my authentic self, to figure myself out and grow and change as much as I need to, and who will love me for whoever I am or end up becoming. What ever it is, I’m getting to a place where I am beginning to feel at peace with who I am and what I believe.
But I’ve noticed something during this change. There are people, seemingly normal, happy, secure in their own lives people, who are threatened by the idea of others changing or going against the grain. People who will take time out of their lives and struggle to make sure that others are marching to the beat of the same drum they are. People who are threatened by those who are different or things they don’t understand. I had enough of that in my life as a Christian. Being told that I just had to believe, just had to have faith, that some questions couldn’t be answered, and that some things just shouldn’t be questioned.
When I found Islam I felt liberated in the sense that my questioning had led me somewhere, and that the religion even encouraged its followers to seek knowledge. I soaked up everything like a sponge, learned about the duties and obligations of a Muslim…and then I stopped. I met other Muslims, adopted the way that they believed and listened to the same scholars they listened to, and stopped listening to my heart, my brain, and my reasoning. I stopped searching and questioning, accepted the mainstream view and took everything at face value, like I was supposed to. I fell into the dangerous habit exhibited by my former role models as a Christian and found myself believing in certain things because that’s just how it is, and you just have to believe.
And now here I am. I still identify as a Muslim, but I’m different. I’m progressive…that’s a dirty word. I question, I ask why, I use my brain and I decide things for myself. My ideas change, my beliefs are fluid, I am open to learning and exploring, I look at issues from more than one side, I accept people for who they are, I don’t condemn others, and leave their faith as something between them and God. And to some, that means I’m not a Muslim at all. I should not stray from the straight path (aka, majority), I should take what is given as it is given and not ask questions. Questioning is dangerous. I should seek out those who identify as Muslims and correct their “wrong” behaviors, and I should not take offense when others correct mine. For a while, I’ve worried that “coming out” about my shift in belief would make me an outcast and that people would judge me, but seriously…I’m done with all of that.
I’m tired of having to appear to be someone and something I’m not. I’m tired of the constant bickering over who’s right and who’s wrong. I’m tired of judgement and condemnation in the name of religion. I’m tired of watching others decide who is going to Hell. I can’t even begin to tell you how sick I am of the Saudi version of Islam and other Muslims’ attempt to defend everything Saudi Arabia does and stands for. I’m tired of religion being twisted and used to excuse disgusting behavior, particularly in this part of the world. I’m tired of the emails I get reminding me to save my soul, honor my husband and my marriage, how living in Saudi is a blessing as a Muslim, how I’m going to Hell for missing Christmas. I’m tired of it all. And now I’m reminded why at one point the Muslim friends I had amounted to ZERO. It’s exhausting.
In the end I guess my crisis of faith has been a blessing. In the book Broken Open by Elizabeth Lesser, she describes what she calles the Phoenix Process. A death and rebirth. Reinvention. Embracing darkness, or in my case questioning my faith altogether, to come into light. Faith, just like many things in life, isn’t a destination. It is a journey. One we should never, ever stop taking. There should never be a point in life where we feel like we’ve got it all figured out. We should be constantly searching, questioning, adapting, evolving, and we should never, ever be made to feel ashamed or wrong for doing so.
And a special note to Muslims…knock it off. Knock it off with all the arrogance in your belief. Humility and respect are what will encourage people to listen to you and understand where you’re coming from. All this talk about Hellfire and kafir this and shirk that…you’re not helping your cause at all. [16:125] You shall invite to the path of your Lord with wisdom and kind enlightenment, and debate with them in the best possible manner. Your Lord knows best who has strayed from His path, and He knows best who are the guided ones. Other people’s faith is none of your business, and it’s not your job to make sure others are doing things according to your (or the sheikh you follow’s) interpretation. Islam is flexible. It is open to interpretation. No one has a monopoly on the truth. Thanks in advance for your cooperation.
I encourage all of my readers, no matter what faith you identify with, even if you don’t identify with one at all, don’t ever allow yourself to get too comfortable with what you believe or don’t believe. Be open, be vulnerable, be accepting of different ideas, be willing to bend. Respect others’ right to believe as they wish. And remember, different doesn’t equal wrong, it’s just…different.
spot-on. and another thing that really frustrates me is that if you don’t follow the model established by the judgmental, hellfire-and-brimstone muslims, said muslims accuse you of converting just to please your husband. because, apparently, it’s impossible to convert without losing your ability to think. and if you dare continue to think for yourself as you embrace islam, then you’re not truly muslim…even though daring to think for yourself was what brought you to islam in the first place. how does that make any sense at all? i am so happy to be muslim, and am so glad to have found a basic theology that makes sense to me. when i found islam, i felt like i’d been muslim all along without knowing it. but man…other muslims make it hard sometimes.
Oh, you didn’t get the memo that when you take shahada you’re supposed to turn in your brain? I feel like maybe there’s a red pill/blue pill moment for converts and most take the blue pill, remaining blissfully unaware inside the system. That comparisson shows my true nerdiness, but whatever. I wish other Muslims, even well-meaning ones, knew how difficult they made things for some of us.
Hiya, as a practising Muslim I really enjoyed your post and agree with you about questioning everything in your faith, as this is what Islam demands of us. However, I would also implore you not to judge Islam by the Muslims (especially the Saudi ones lol) but by the religion itself. NO ONE has the right or authority to decide who is going to Hell; only God knows that. The best we can do is help each other gently and without accusing them of wrongdoing, but most importantly to start with ourselves. “Don’t point your finger if your hands aren’t clean.”
I love this post! I wrote about this once on my blog. http://yamaamaa.com/2010/12/03/islamometer/ when an article I wrote for an Islamic site was rejected because it wasn’t proper. People here for some reason are terrified of asking questions. I think it’s ridiculous that they have so little faith in their own religion that they think asking questions will make people not believe. The whole basis of Islam is to ask questions. If Allah didn’t want us to think and explore and question all of this there would be NO POINT to life! and the whole test of faith. Also the arrogance that people have to say you are a kafir or a muslim is insane. I am happy you have chosen to believe in something you have questioned and I am so sure the more you question the more you will believe. Just block everyone out and read and research and you’ll get to what Allah wants you to get to.
Amazing post, Mama B!!! And your entire comment is like taking the words from my mouth…exactly. Here’s to questioning!
Prophet Ibrahim also asked Allah to make him see how does he bring the dead back to life.Allah asked him to cut, grind the birds & mix there flesh together and then place them on each mountain.And once he called them all came to life by Allah’s Command.So even Ibrahim had Questioned God Almighty.The Qur’an and the Hadith has answers to each and every thing.ex.How to eat,sleep,talk to people,wear cloths,take a bath,respect elders the poor and anyone who come across in our life.Islam is a way of Life.We all try hard to get close to Allah in such simple ways.His Mercy is always with us no matter where we are and who we are.In the end after we die no friend no parents no children shall help us,we shall be alone with our deeds close to us and that would be our friend till the end. Hope we all enter jannah happily.
I think anyone who doesn’t question is doing themselves a great disservice. Whether you come to Islam by birth or voluntarily, questioning, seeking, and pondering should be intrinsic parts of faith.
Congratulations. It’s a hard row to hoe, but entirely worth it.
And the nutmeg people. Sigh. Been there. My argument is that to get high on nutmeg, you essentially have to down in one sitting more than most people consume in a lifetime, then suffer the side effects of poisoning. Apple seeds are poisonous in large doses and tea, should you consume enough, is also an intoxicant. Yet, the nutmeg nutters don’t want to ban apples and tea.
I read somewhere that to drink a certain amount of tea in one sitting could kill you. I think if some Muslims knew that, they’d ban tea. Hell, you can even die from water poisoning. Using common sense is like a sin to some, though, and they’ll take whatever their sheikh told them as the word of God. You know how you have to buy nutmeg here? You have to quietly ask the dude at your local spice shop to give you some, and he’ll sell it under the table. Seriously. Nutmeg. I think pot or hash might actually be easier to get.
YOU are going to be one of few women to bring about change in the KSA…I know it!
And no words over the nutmeg issue. None.
At most, I’ll probably end up on trial for blasphemy
But here’s to at least encouraging change via free thinking and decent reasoning skills.
Nutmeg dude. Nutmeg.
Excellent post. I consider myself an ex-Catholic not because I stopped believing in God but because the way the Church was trying to guide my faith did not make sense with the world around me. Coming out as a secular person has allowed me to reach out for my own answers and be a lot more respectful and curious of all the diverse forms of reaching a full spiritual life.
By the way, I love your blog
For some people, organized religion is not the way to go…I totally respect that. I pulled away from the church as a teenager and considered myself a spiritual person. I was always seeking, but somehow got to the point where I stopped. I encourage you to never ever stop seeking. Thanks for stopping by and taking the time to comment!
Last comment (if I can help it! I always take over your comments!) The thing about Islam is that is is all about your intention. All about whats inside you. So who can see what’s inside you besides God? I mean how can people judge you on your intention! We do not (or did not) have people to go to between God and us. We have a direct link. but now all these Sheikhs are coming up and have a following to rival the biggest pop stars and have the flashy watches to go with it and it’s really scary.
Also, read a book called “even angels ask” by Jeffery Lang ( http://www.amazon.com/Even-Angels-Ask-Journey-America/dp/0915957671 ) which is about exactly what you are discussing in your post. It’s eye opening,
You never need to cut back on the comments…for real! The sheikhs…the scholars…I respect that there are people out there who are more knowledgeable than me, but I do not believe that anyone’s opinon has any superiority over my own judgement…even if they ARE learned men. But still, people follow them blindly, as if THEY are prophets and messengers. I don’t get it.
A quote that started this journey for me over a year ago was by the Buddha: “Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.”
How incredibly powerful is that?! Really, just let it sink in for a moment. Wow.
I’ll check out the book for sure!
That is an excellent post, enjoyed reading it and found myself nodding along to it..thanks for writing this and spreading the voice of reason..
Those nutmeggers have come for years to my blog telling me exactly the things you’ve mentioned..”you’re committing shirk” ” “you ridicule Muslims” “you’re not a real Muslim” “you shall taste death and nobody will help you in your grave” just to mention a few of the latest very nice sisterly advice I’ve received.
Actually this behavior and trying to put others down is like bullying. They are bullies, pure and simple.
We have to also understand that these people act the same as if they are in a cult. No individual thinking is allowed.
I would like to take this opportunity to share the same message with those muslims that come to harass me on my blog: Knock it off, and get a life.
Congratulations on releasing the critical thinker.
By the way Hell doesn’t exist (made up). 
The development of hell in religion is quite interesting worth checking out if you ever get the chance. Believe me I am very confident you will never go there. 
. Enjoy your life as you deserve to.
Take care.
Big.
PS:
I like heresy. Which is nothing more than a greek word for a person who has a choice in their beliefs.
I think everyone passes through this phase in his/her life and everyone has different way to pass this phase and also they come to different conclusions. I had my similar moments and I did 2 things, one was to pray to Allah and ask for his help with full sincerity and second was to read/gain knowledge as much as possible without being influenced by society or any person. In the end i became a stronger a person with stronger belief in Allah.
Salam…when you say “Im different,,,im progressive”..do you not think that it may put you into a labelled corner making others feel excluded from the same “islam” that you are following.
I guess what i am trying to say is that there is only 1 islam…you may want to call your version progressive..but are there versions? or is it just black and white and a whole lotta grey area which i guess is what your wanting to explore deeply and sure why not? Islam is not like other religions that cannot handle a whole lot of questioning..there is nothing to hide about Islam or to deceive people into thinking, so i think questioning and researching and critically thinking is part of any believers duty.
In my opinion and this is only mine i feel uneasy when hearing labels being chosen to describe their “islam”..it may automatically isolate many others who have the same thirst for answers and knowledge as you do yet choose not to associate themselves with a particular brand or name. Get what i mean?
We all label ourselves at times in an effort to define who we are and to find others who may feel the same. And others label us as well. Typically I’d identify as plain old Muslim, but for the purpose of this post, it was necessary for me to use other words to describe where I’m coming from. I’m not worried about excluding others, because I’m not interested in telling others how to believe, or hearing how they think I should believe. And I’m not saying that the way I’ve come to believe is correct or right for everyone. It’s just right for me. If people want to steer clear of me and my labels, that’s up to them I suppose. But those truly thirsting for knowledge will look beyond labels and definitions. We like to believe that there is only one Islam, and maybe there used to be…or maybe somewhere it still exists, but taking a look at Muslims as a whole, it’s very clear that everyone’s ideas on what that ONE Islam is supposed to be are vastly different.
I just wanted to say I think all of us go through this. I, myself, don’t feel ashamed at all about missing Christmas or any other holiday. No I do not celebrate them but I did come to an understanding that I HAVE to make those kinds of traditions for myself and it is the tradition and the feeling attached to them I miss. I do go look at the lights every year and totally love everything about the Christmas season and I REFUSE to let anyone make me feel guilty. I am actually one of the muslim converts (ok to me reverts is just symantics and why go there) that does not celebrate anything but Eid. So for all those that are sooooooo into your business about Christmas but at the same time celebrate birthdays how hypocritical are they? In this life it is your path to find and follow and no one can choose it for you. I mean over here in the states you have born muslims who have no christian family celebrating Christmas, Halloween, Thanksgiving ect. but for some reason they want to judge the converts and blame them for behaving like they aren’t muslim. I get tired of it. For me I have been muslim long enough though to be able to not care what others think of me and my beliefs and I am quite content being a muslim who does ask questions and makes up her own mind what she feels she should do and follow. There is no religion by compulsion and I will not allow myself to be forced. Now that I totally turned that to me and away from you I’ll let you have the floor again lol. Don’t worry about others just yourself. In them trying so hard to avoid bidah they themselves create it.
Thanks for the advice, Faatimah. I agree with you, those who pass judgement most ofen are the ones who have some self checking to do. But whatever, I suppose. It’s taken me a while, and I do still have a lot of things I feel insecure about coming out about, but I’m getting there. It’s funny that I worry more about how other Muslims will percieve my muslimness than I worried about how my non muslim family would react to my conversion. Oh, and I don’t say revert/reversion either. I think it’s snobby.
So- have you been getting a lot of letters about how wrong you are with this post?
Surprisingly, no! Not yet, at least.
This is probably a nerd question, Is the Hadith ever understood to be correct for the time and place but maybe not for today? Also is the cultural norms and politics of the time understood to have had some impact on the Hadith? I not sure my questions will be clear, In my head I know what I am trying to ask. Lol The problem is I don’t have the language to make myself understood. Also I am trying really hard to not sound like an idiot or insult someone. Thank you for your blog, I really do enjoy spending time here.
It’s not a nerd question, it’s a good one! I guess it would depend on who you ask. Some (most, I should say) might say that the hadith are relevant today despite the differences in society that time has brought about, or the difference among cultures across the world and hold tight to them still today. Some might say that the hadith are irrelevant and inacurate and reject them altogether, unless they confirm what is already in Quran.
I hope I answered your question…if not or if you need more elaboration, please feel free to keep asking
A Hadith is “Sayings of the last Messenger P.B.U.H”.Now these Hadith were collected by very well known dedicated Scholars like Bukhari,Muslim,Abu Dawood,Ibn Maja,etc.you can also read there Biography which shows you the time and dedication they had put to collect these.Now Hadith is classified into Two types. Strong and Weak. If the narrations come by many or Chain of Companions of the Prophet(p.b.u.h) who heard him say or saw him practice it , it is considered as a Strong Hadith which is genuine.A week Hadith is something where the companion of prophet conveys p.b.u.h saying it however he was old & couldn’t remember what he said and the chain of narrations are not strong we consider them as weak Hadith. A person who doesn’t believe in the Hadith is not a Muslim.Allah says in the Quran- Obay me and follow the Messenger.Every messenger who came on earth did tell people of the forth coming prophet.The Jews & Christians knew that the Last Messenger Muhammed (p.b.u.h) was coming and most of them did accept Islam upon his arrival,cause there messenger did tell them that Muhammad(p.b.u.h) would be the seal of prophets.Hope its clear that No Muslim is a Muslim if he rejects the Hadith.
Deciding on who is and who is not a Muslim is something that is reserved for an individual to decide for himself/herself, and something that is to be judged by God. Perhaps hadith–why some people accept it and others reject it–is a topic that I should bring up in another post. But let’s be careful about who we’re calling kafirs here
Its very simple as i said those who don’t believe the hadith are not considered as Muslims that’s the Law,Its like your a Muslim and you don’t believe Jesus is the Messenger of God.Hey One quick Question Do you accept the Hadith?Do you read it often?
I don’t have any problem accepting hadith if they confirm what is already written in the Quran.. I guess it’s fine if you don’t consider certain groups of people to be valid Muslims…and it doesn’t surprise me honestly. It’s quite common for some Muslims to believe they have the authority to decide such a thing. The only requirement for belief is believing in one God and the only thing which can invalidate that belief is associating with God.
Related question, what do you think about this sahih hadith?
Ibn Saeed Al-Khudry reported that the messenger of God had said,
“Do not write anything from me except Quran. Anyone who wrote anything other than the Quran shall erase it.” [Ahmed, Vol. 1, Page 171, and Sahih Moslim, Zuhd, Book 42, Number 7147]
When the state starts using religion to interfere with personal freedom it leads to a repressed/oppressed society. Is there any space for aetheism in Islam? In Hinduism you can be a non believer and still be a Hindu. I find it difficult to comprehend any religion that is so obsessed with sex, women’s appearance like the way it is done by muslims. I am not using the word Islam since I am not sure if Islam has propagated this.
Some interesting and thought provoking questions and statements! Islam is no doubt a religion based entirely on the belief in God, one god to be specific. So the rejection of God as an actual being/energy/creator/etc would, for all intents and purposes, not qualify someone as a Muslim. Having said that, there are people who may be athiest and still identify culturally as Muslims because of family, culture, or upbringing. I never knew that one could be a non believer and a still a Hindu…I’d love to learn more! As far as the state enforcing religion, I find it hard to accept as well. The Quran says that there is no compulsion in religion, meaning it shouldn’t be up to a government to make sure people are practicing or believing.
It’s interesting you bring up the topic of sex and appearance. I often wonder…are we making the body into nothing more than a sex object? If we stopped viewing women’s bodies in particular as a walking sex organ, if we changed the way we though about the human body, would it change people’s ideas about covering? Every society has its ideas about what is appropriate dress, what’s acceptable to show or not show, but why? Aren’t there cultures where even nudity is normal and the human body is not shameful? I guess it’s something to wonder about at the very least.
One thing is for sure, the issue of covering and to what extent covering should be done should be up to individuals. No one should ever force a woman to cover or uncover more than she is comfortable doing. Unfortunately here, women aren’t really free to make that choice.
There are rules in Islam about how much to cover(basic) for both Men & Women.Its not something personal choice as said .Islam is a religion which has its own guidelines.By the way it is not that strict either as people think it is.Its all for our benefit.
No doubt there are guidelines about what is to be covered, but it IS a personal choice. Specifically regarding women and the issue of hijab, it is a multifaceted issue and one that has many different interpretations. How a woman chooses to cover should be HER choice. She gains absolutely no benefit, no reward, and no ajr for doing it because she is forced to or doing it because that’s what the government says she should do.
Well i totally agree what a women choice is pertaining to your subject “Hijab”,here i was talking about the Laws of Islam,not a Govt Law.I never encouraged and am against anyone who force people in Religion .Islam never came by force,its a flexible beautiful Religion & way of life it gives peace to the heart.People who luv the religion will always fasten there way towards Allah & do good for others and for them self. You know i never liked the way people are instructed to close shops or petrol pumps when the call of Azan occurs,Once i was in a hurry to go home and found out that i was out of Gas,i drove to the Gas station and as soon as i got there the Azan just started i asked the guy politely to fill her up.The guy refused i told him my urgency however he dint even care.Then i had no other choice but wait,in the mean time i just watched him if he really goes for Prayer,and guess what the guy just sits there talking with his co-workers.All i want to say is that People who want to Pray will Pray no matter what,you don’t have to ask them to close there shops and sit inside with the lights off. There is no where written in Islamic Law that this law should be enforced.
How do you feel about living here in a place where religion is very much forced on the people? What impact to you think it would have on society if religion stopped being enforced here? I agree at the silliness of closing shops for prayer. It’s become nothing more than an extended break for the employees. What’s wrong with giving the employees alternating breaks if they choose to go and pray? A couple weeks ago while eating out with friends, I felt so annoyed at how they “closed” for prayer. The doors were locked about 20 minutes, all the waiters stayed working but couldn’t take orders during that time, some of our group came during this “closed” time and had to be let in the back door like it’s the underground railroad or something. Even if this practice started with good intention, it’s seriously taken advantage of and adds to the feeling of not being appreciated as a customer that is already prevalent here.
UTA, if knife is harmful we lock up the knife and not the people/vegetables or fruits right. If a man is tempted by a woman’s appearance shouldnt he be trained to control his impulses and not force the woman to cover up?? It also raises a broader question for me, if women exist to exalt the male gender – help him not to commit crime by harming women, assist him in his daily life so that he becomes better – and if that is the case, shouldnt women be respected more and not treated as second class citizens .. I am truly sorry if I am offending someone with these questions. I am asking these only for me to gain a better perspective of the discussions going on here
Again, you raise very valid points. I started thinking about this in depth when the case of that poor girl who was gang raped in India surfaced. And before that there was an article about banning mini skirts in swaziland (or something like that). I do not think that women or women’s bodies are the problem, rather the way that men behave. We teach our sons that women are sexual things and they’re not allowed to look or touch and they go wild. It’s like the proverbial red button that you’re not supposed to push. Everyone wants to push the red button. Women should be more respected, and they are by some, but the situation could definitely be improved. I don’t find your questions offensive at all, but rather thought provoking.
I would hope Islam could become more moderate. By moderate I mean someone who is willing to accept the validity of another’s belief and even learn something from another faith. Martin Luther King adopted some of his ideas about non-violence from Gandhi, a Hindu. It was only at the end of the 19th century that some Christians no longer felt it was proper to try to convert Jews. (It took the experience of WWII for most Christian churches to abandon attempts to proseltyze to Jews.)
Given how many Muslims live in non-Muslim countries, this is a real issue. For some reason Islam doesn’t like its people to get along well with others. So, we see disaffected Muslim youth in place like Britain. Yet, Hindus who share the same ethnicity seem to have learned how to integrate into the societies in which they live. I see the same thing to a lesser degree in the US. Hindus integrate well and Muslim remain apart.
Being a part of the Muslim community in my hometown I found the same things you describe above. But not only do the Muslims fail to assimilate, they also have the habit of forming nationality based cliques even within the Muslim community, making it hard to feel welcome as a convert. I do find that second, third, etc generation Muslims in the west do a much better job at meshing. It’s unfortunate in a way, but being here in KSA as an expat, I can understand why they do it. I tend to gravitate towards westerners most often because it makes me feel at home, and I feel like we understand each other better than those who were not raised in the West.
I do think with the rise in globalization, Muslims will learn to be more tolerant and accepting of people of differing beliefs, and in some countries they already are. Saudi, however, has a long way to go in that regard.
Islam shows you the way of life.Don’t look at people and decide how Islam is and Yes we do love to research about other religion and respect there values,we love Jesus more than any christian on earth and believe he shall come back to earth to kill the Anti Christ,have you been to U.A.E Jerry,please do visit us there every two years we have a peace conference and we do talk to Cristian missionary quite often and exchange our faith Values.Have you been to India before i bet not,you should know that the Hindus are given majority of the seats ,although we exist.How about the Jews? Do Jews mingle with the Christians in the U.S Don’t you think they stay apart from your community and they control the US and are the guys who run your country.Why does every one blame the Muslims i wonder.I have not been to the US,however 90% of my family members moved to U.S in the 1905 and they mingle along just fine with people of the other community.Islam has always thought us to respect other religion,you think if we are Muslims we are easily granted Paradise we to have to work hard do good deeds to enter Paradise.All religion does teach us good however there is a big difference between Man made things and God made things.
I don’t think Jerry was bashing Muslimms, Abdul Mujeeb. But there is a definite divide at times between immigrant Muslims and the locals of the country they have emmigrated to. Not all, but some. And that’s hard to understand for some people. Hopefully I put a little more sense to it by sharing what it feels like to be an outsider.
If I sound like I was bashing Muslims, I didn’t mean to. Believe me I could make a long winded post about things wrong with Christianity.
As far as Jews mingling with others in the US, they do! My neighbors for 40 years in NJ were Jewish. I wished them well on their holidays and they wished us well on ours. In truth there aren’t many Jews in the US (maybe 8 million) so in much of the US they are pretty scarce but in the major urban areas they are common. Except for “Chasidic” Jews who do self-segregate, other Jews don’t. As far as whether they run the country. I don’t think so. We have never had a Jewish president. One problem that Jews have had a hard time addressing is how to deal with children of mixed marriages. Because Jews are no longer segregated against they socialize with non-Jews and marry non-Jews. (My neighbor’s 2 children both married non-Jews.)
If I am correct in India, Mr Abdul Kalam served as the President of India and I am sure that in the US there are high ranking officials in the govt who are Jews. Would any Islamic country allow anyone other than a Muslim to preside over such high offices? I dont think it is even correct to compare secular nations with Islamic countries. Please do correct me if I am wrong.
UTA:
Well, if you want another side to hadith here is a place to begin. I have more I promise. Never hurts to get different scholars/historians thoughts and make you own decision.
This pdf file takes a few minutes to download.
http://ahadithstudies.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/introduction-islamic-theology-law-goldziher.pdf
I came across this link just yesterday in another forum…can’t remember where. I have it bookmarked to read. Thanks
@CS No one treats a women 2nd Class,if she wears a Abaya .We all Men love Women and respect them.Every country has there own laws we should respect them cause we are all expats,we choose to come here no one forced us here.By the way back in the U.S every minute there are Women who get raped (i donno for what reason),why doesn’t the Govt teach them a lesson by cutting off there head (joking)The Govt should teach them to control them self. We should ask Saudi Women or Muslim women about this issue.And i know for sure 80-90% luv wearing the Abaya.
No one treats a woman as a second class citizen because she wears an abaya. She’s treated like one because she is MADE to wear it. Not to mention other things here like the guardianship system, needing permission for just about everything, not being able to drive, etc. Second class because a woman by birth doesn’t have the same rights as a man.
Not everyone chooses to come here. Certainly the Saudi women who have grown up here didn’t choose it, and I know many who if they had the choice, they’d leave. How do you know for sure that 80-90% of women love wearing the abaya? Is there a survey somewhere that I don’t know about? Women here are made to wear abaya from puberty…it’s the LAW. They grow up with it and get used to it, they tolerate it, they are told that it is somehow mandated by islam, which is a lie. But have you ever been on a plane that is leaving Saudi Arabia and witnessed the women going one by one to the bathroom to remove their abayas? I like the abaya because I can wear my pajamas to the store without anyone knowing…but that’s about it. If women here had the CHOICE you might find that your statistic of 80-90% is WAY off.
There are plenty of rapes, sexual assaults, and other crimes against women here, my dear. The difference it is aib, or shameful, for the woman to report it or admit it. How can you say that the government should teach men to control themselves, but at the same time suggest that not dressing modestly (as I’m assuming that’s what you meant by pointing at the USA) is the cause for rape? Your argument makes no sense and you’re making stuff up.
Well if your talking about Saudi Women wearing the Abaya,they will always cling to it no matter what that’s my research what i have come up with personally.Yes I have seen women taking the Abaya off at Airports however don’t know where the flight was headed.Am a Male and i cant know or see much as much as you women can see as to what happens in the restrooms here.And please don’t tell me they tolerate it cause that’s untrue. Regarding the guardianship system i do agree to what you say,however you are not in UAE or in Qatar to walk on the street alone at 1 am in the morning its just not safe but if your traveling by Air there is absolutely no need for a male guardian.May be you have been with women who don’t like the Abaya, why don’t we do a survey on the street,i bet that would give us 80% people who will choose to wear the Abaya. And please for heaven sake don’t let women drive in this country unless the Govt changes the way they issue license to new people.You know how people drive in this country and i bet women would drive more worse than Men.Change the issue of license structure and then you women can drive.Safe for every one.
The women who would supposedly cling to abaya would do so largely because that’s what their culture has told them they should do. It is accepted and tolerated because that’s what they’ve been made to belive. If the abaya was the ideal islamic garment, Muslim women all over the world would wear it in overwhelming numbers. But as you and I have both witnessed, when they leave the Gulf, it’s bye bye abaya.
I don’t think you understand the guardianship issue completely as it is enforced in Saudi Arabia. A woman needs her guardian’s permission to exit the country, enroll in university, and get a job…just to name a few. She does not, surprisingly, need her guardian to accompany her in the street, no matter what time it is, which you seem to think is a good idea. Tell me how traveling, studying, or working are dangerous activities needing permission from a man? The rule applies to women of all ages, by the way. A woman is never really an adult here.
I’m a little insulted by the assertion that women, by mere chance of having different genitals and chromisomes, are not as capable as men to drive. The driving situation here would be much improved by getting rid of MEN who come in droves from different countries, many having never been behind the wheel of a car, and being granted licenses. Added to that is little no no enforcement by traffic police, save for the cameras they are now instaling to catch speeders and red light runners. The absence of women doesn’t have any effect on the road conditions here, and you can look at any country in the world and find that women are statistically better drivers, so perhaps allowing women to drive for themselves and sending the countless foreign drivers back to their home countries would alleviate the problem. And please understand, Abdul Mujeeb, not allowing women to drive has nothing at all to do with road safety and everything to do with maintaining control over half of the country’s population.
As a USA resident male I cannot know what Saudi women think of the garment, but I can say the abaya is an impractical garment if one has to move outside the home. You certainly cannot be a safe driver with the full face covering. In places where women have worn abaya like garments, they have usually replaced them with something else once they had to drive cars regularly. In the US Catholic religious women wore garments that can be compared with the abaya. Once the US catholic population left the cities and nuns followed them, the old fashioned habit very quickly was replaced with headgear that fully exposed the face and ears. In many cases religious woman in jobs like nursing dropped the habit completely. It is unsanitary in many cases and unsafe in others.
Of course Saudi Arabia prohibits women from driving so they can get away with requiring women to wear the abaya but once women start driving the abaya as it is currently configured should go (unless Saudi women drivers want to get in as many accidents as the men).
As a woman who has driven in both abaya and hijab, I can assure you that neither affect driving skill or ability. No more than a long dress or a baseball cap. So Saudi women could drive without having to remove the abaya, just like women in other gulf countries who drive and wear abaya. Also, men of the gulf weat thobes (long white dresses) and shemagh(red and white checkered head piece) and that doesn’t hinder their driving. The face veil I wouldn’t be sure about since I’ve never work one, let alone driven in one.
As I said, the issue is with untrained foreign drivers who don’t have the proper training and lack of enforcement of traffic laws.
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device from STC
I should clarify. I am sure you can drive safely with an abaya on your head but one would have to take extra precautions. In winter in Minnesota I take my hat off to drive. As far as the hijab, I think that would be ok. The hijab in some configurations resembles the head gear the Catholic religious women wore after they abandoned the old style head gear.
As far was what is below the neck, except for high heels it shouldn’t matter. As far a Saudi men, I don’t know if they can see well with some of their headgear.
It is simply not true that “No one treats a women 2nd Class,if she wears a Abaya”. It happens ALL THE TIME. Nor is it true all Saudi women want to wear it. One easy way to find out is for it to be legal for women to wear what they like. Then watch what happens. A few months ago I read an article in the paper that some Saudi women are even buying lab coats to look like doctors so they don’t have to wear one.
And rape happens a lot in the kingdom. Read the paper. And it is under-reported.
Very interesting discussion, UTA!
Active learning and discovery is what makes this life interesting and makes those who seek happy and complete at the end of the day. I can never stand under the roof of any religion – because I would feel limited and so to say imprisoned mentally and spiritually.
What do you think about this source that talks about hadith? http://www.quran-islam.org/articles/part_1/history_hadith_1_(P1148).html
If I were Muslim, THIS would make sense to me. But apparently the majority of Muslim people cannot imagine their life without a hadith. Strange, isn’t it. Why do Muslims need smb else talking about how to live if there is already Qoran provided to them (Qoran that is a complete guide to life)?
Hey there stranger! I like that website…I came across it this past summer and it has a lot of information. Speaking as someone who discovered a new faith, I can tell you that it can be absolutely terrifying to realize that what you’ve believed your entire life isn’t right for you. Worrying about what people will think, possible rejection (maybe a death sentence if everyone believed like our friend Abdul Mujeeb…), if you’re doing the right thing, and how you’ll be treated after admitting your beliefs are big pills to swallow, so for most people, it’s easier to just chalk any doubts or questions you may have up to the whispers of shaitan and continue with business as usual. I can remember several years back, the mr had discovered the “19″ theory. He spent days without sleeping and he was so shocked, so overwhelmed. But he then realized these people reject Hadith, and his research stopped there. It was too much for him. That’s my two cents!
I have to read on that “19″ theory.
It pisses me that Muslims, or people in general who believe in 1 God, would make stuff like hadith important… One of my friends says “Well, Qoran did not teach us how exactly to pray, etc etc etc…”. How is it compete then, if it did not even provide that knowledge? Why do Muslims refer to other things outside of the main book? Islam has become an industry, that employs and empowers men to exercise anything they want.
No need to get pissed off. There is no use in wasting your energy stressing out on what others choose to believe, right?
This might be Strange to you.With out the hadith (Sayings of the Prophet) you can never be a Muslim. Please find below the Verses of the Quran
Allah says, “Believe in Allah and His Messenger and the light which He sent down.” [Al-Qur'an 64:8]
Allah says, “O you who believe, obey Allah and His Messenger … ” [Al-Qur'an 8:20]
Allah says,”Whoever obeys the Messenger has obeyed Allah … ” [Al-Qur'an 4:79]
Allaah says:“Nor does he speak of (his own) desire. It is only a Revelation revealed” [al-Najm 53:3-4]
Allah says :“And We have also sent down unto you (O Muhammad صلىالله عليه وسلم) the Dhikr [reminder and the advice (i.e. the Qur’aan)], that you may explain clearly to men what is sent down to them, and that they may give thought” [al-Nahl 16:44].
Allah says :“Verily, We, it is We Who have sent down the Dhikr and surely, We will guard it (from corruption)” [al-Hijr 15:9]
“Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم): “I warn you only by the Revelation (from Allah and not by the opinion of the religious scholars and others). But the deaf (who follow the religious scholars and others blindly) will not hear the call, (even) when they are warned [i.e. one should follow only the Qur’aan and the Sunnah (legal ways, orders, acts of worship, and the statements of Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم , as the Companions of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم did)]” [al-Anbiya’ 21:45]
Allah tells us that the words of His Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) are all Wahy (revelation), and Wahy is undoubtedly Dhikr, and Dhikr is preserved according to the text of the Qur’aan. Thus it is correct to say that his words (P.B.U.H) are all preserved by Allah, may He be glorified and exalted, and He has promised that none of them will be lost to us, because that which Allah preserves can certainly not be lost at all; it has all been transmitted to us and Allah has established proof and left us with no excuse.
So it is clear that there is no error in the interpretation of the Qur’aan or in the transmission of hadeeth or interpretation thereof. Allah guaranteed that there would always be in this ummah those who would explain it and highlight evidence against the errors of those who err and the lies of those who lie. This ummah will not agree on misguidance, and there will remain among them a group who will adhere to the truth until the Hour begins. For they are the last of the nations and there is no Prophet after their Prophet and no Book after their Book. When the nations before them changed, Allah sent a Prophet to show them the way with commands and prohibitions, but there will be no Prophet after Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) and Allah has guaranteed to preserve the revelation that He has sent down.
The messenger of God P.B.U.H said which was narrated from al-Miqdaam ibn Ma’di Yakrib (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:
“Verily I have been given the Qur’aan and something similar to it along with it. But soon there will be a time when a man will be reclining on his couch with a full stomach, and he will say, ‘You should adhere to this Qur’aan: what you find that it says is permissible, take it as permissible, and what you find it says is forbidden, take it as forbidden.’ But indeed, whatever the Messenger of Allaah forbids is like what Allaah forbids.”
Hope this is clear for you.Please read the Biography of the people who collected these Hadith like Bukhari,Muslim,Abu Dawood,Ibn Maja. that will really show you how these people worked hard in collecting them.
Thank you for being a shining example of the types of Muslims I described in my post.
UTA: yes, insurance companies are offering women drivers lower rates – it is research based, Abdul Mujeeb, otherwise – believe me – why would they discount those rates… Why – ask yourself. THINK, Abdul Mujeeb, THINK again. In case it still doesnt make sense to you: WOMEN ARE SAFE DRIVERS, because naturally we are made to protect our babies and ourselves, this instinct is so strong, that in today’s worlds we even protect our men, our partners.
I would also like to know, WHERE in Qoran does it say that a woman should wear a niqab? “Covering private parts”? “Beauties”? Why is KSA the only Muslim country following this law? This question has bothered me for years, I swear.
Come on women be practical in life,we men are the once who invented the machine lol and we are the best drivers in any country or any part of the world,why don’t i see women equal to Men in F1 race.Women always have there belly touching the steering wheel and have two hands placed on the steering at all times.Yes you are absolutely right the way you women protect your children is just too great and we men are very thankful.However don’t you people think that Men protect the country there family.We are physically strong by nature and by will to.We protect Women and Children together.
Regarding women covering them self you should know that this is a ISLAMIC LAW. .You women should understand the LAW and respect the Country’s rules and act accordingly.IRAN has the same Law to.
Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent , and to draw their veils all over Juyoobihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms) and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands, or their fathers, or their husband’s fathers, or their sons, or their husband’s sons, or their brothers or their brother’s sons, or their sister’s sons, or their (Muslim) women (i.e. their sisters in Islam), or the (female) slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants who lack vigour, or small children who have no sense of feminine sex. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And all of you beg Allaah to forgive you all, O believers, that you may be successful”[al-Noor 24:31]
Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies. That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allaah is Ever Oft‑Forgiving, Most Merciful”[al-Ahzaab 33:59]
I hope this answers your Questions.And by the way if any one doesn’t want to do Hijab its up to her.
Oh how narrow -minded you are, Abdul, I just feel sorry for you.
You are the garbage of Islam and the world overall.
I don’t wish to see your yucky comments on this website, I hope you never come back and if you do, I will ignore your comments since they are based on short-mindness and the lack of respect to women. Obviously.
Oh wow. “You women” and talk of how men are the best and the strongest and the most capable. Spoken like someone who was spoonfed this garbage from a young age. You talk in one comment about how women are to be loved and respected, and then this garbage? I sincerely hope you’re joking.
Btw…see all of those words in (parentheses)? Those are added by the translator to pass along his personal interpretation, not to be confused with Quranic text.
My dear, you’ve lost a lot of respect from me, and I sincerely hope you’ll open your heart and your mind before you ever consider getting married and fathering (possibly female) children. I shudder.
Is physical strength the only deciding factor in all aspects?
It is really sad to hear such things when we have a Sunita Williams commander of a spaceship, women fighting for the nation shoulder to shoulder with men in a lot of countries, practicing as successful doctors – just to name a few things where women have contributed.
I am sure even in KSA you have excellent lady doctors who are highly capable of saving lives but will never be allowed to travel on their own or drive and be expected to be subservient to men, but still you will preach that they are not second rate citizens. There are too many contradictions in your arguments that baffle me.
For Abdul Mujeeb and any man who thinks that men are the “superior” sex… http://www.mommyish.com/2012/09/26/dr-andrew-rochford-663/
First of all am Very Sorry if my words Offended any of the women here.I do sincerely Apologize.Both Men and Women need each other and No one is superior,i am a practical person and what i see is what i believe, i had many female friends in the UAE who admitted that women are the worst drivers(well most of them are) that’s what i have seen so don’t take it soooo personal its just my opinion.Coming back to Religion i had noticed that What so ever proof is provided to you people yet you will still say Hijab is not obligatory & Hadith should not be considered and many people always look at negative points of this country.Please do post positive points on your Blogs about what Arabs believe & what K.S.A is all about. You wanted to know where hijab is mentioned in the Qur’an then there it is, and by the way you can go ahead and refer the Qur’an by the Verse Number that i provided U.T.A(its the translation in the Book).I am no Scholar of Islam however i did my best to explain. When evidence is provided to you Zero,you start using such beautiful comments.Oh my heart is very Open and am not Narrow minded either.And i know for sure i would luv my would be wife (wherever she is), be honest to her be good husband and a great Father may it be a girl or a boy.I will always be there for them no matter what.Again am Sorry for commenting about women like that.Hope you all forgive me i am just being practical i guess. And don’t ever call me a Garbage of Islam .Your comments are very offensive TO…. “It pisses me that Muslims, or people in general who believe in 1 God, would make stuff like hadith important ” .YES ITS IMPORTANT FOR US & WILL ALWAYS BE,WHY DOES IT PISS YOU OFF what we Muslims do, we dint and will never force you to believe on Hadith.Its your choice to believe or not to believe. SO DON’T GET PISSED OFF Simple.
You were indirectly asked to not appear here any more. Is that clear to you Abdul ? As I can see it’s not. Enough, dude, enough. We have been listening to your BS for a long time now and then at the end you apologize. No need to write here at all – okay? Did you get that? I hope you did. Coz you are not welcomed here any more.
I never said he’s not welcome here any more. This is an open blog, and while he may have chosen to speak in a way that was unsavory, he’s still welcome to offer his opinion.
So What’s your opinion on Hijab & Hadith i wonder.
Wow. So you have a different opinion to Abdul Mujeeb and that qualifies you to tell him to get lost? Get over yourself!
I would only leave if the Owner of this Blog U.T.A asks me to.However U.T.A i had read each and every blog and am very found of what you write and what goes on here.I wait and get excited for the new blogs.So i still wish to stay & continue reading your blogs & writing what i think.
Again, you’re welcome to stay. I’ve never asked someone to leave just because we disagree. Ask bigstick
As long as we’ll all respect each other, this is a place where people can say what they want.
Ouch. Thrown under the bus and crunched. Thanks, UTA.
By the way, Abdul, if you want to see some interesting perspectives on Islam then do visit my site. I am sure you will find my belief on the fairytale quite interesting.
Always love a good debate and I am known to be an ass. Just ask anyone. I am cuddly though, I just have a few rough edges. :greendevil:
Salute’s at UTA. May God bless you & your family always.
You site is quite interesting, i would read everything when i have a spare time thanks for sharing Bigstick. I bet we can tag along just fine then lol.
I refrained from commenting before because I didn’t want to jack your thread, but I wanted to point out to Abdul Mujeeb that there is ijma concerning takfir. That is, one cannot unconsciously become a disbeliever, one must *consciously* and publicly reject belief, so the foul accusation about Quranists being “not Muslim” is dead wrong. Even Muslims one disagrees with, even Muslims who are, according to someone’s standards, “bad Muslims,” are still Muslim. And since Abdul Mujeeb is such a great lover of hadith, he’ll surely remember all of the dire warnings the Prophet gave us about accusing Muslims of disbelief. Even the Prophet himself refused to judge another person’s belief and chastised the Sahaba for doing so.
And finally, remember that the Prophet told us that the one who calls a believer a disbeliever runs the risk of himself falling into disbelief. Those who take seriously the emulation of the Prophet would do well to pay attention to his words, instead of worshiping takfir-loving scholars. This resurrection of khawarij habits among Saudis and others is quite disturbing and directly contrary to the Quran and Sunnah and I hope that Islam and good sense will eventually overtake scholar-worship and self righteousness.
Here is a great article. I studied!
http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/Arlandson/why_no_conversion.htm
@ CS Ladies please, first of all don’t take things personally.Women played a very important role in this world since the day they was created.Even if i Rip off my skin and make a beautiful shoes for my mother or even carry her in my arms around the globe without a wheel chair,i have not done enough and i would never be able to match the pain she had while giving birth to me.So please don’t get me wrong that way.I am no women hater.Its just that women just don’t fit in somethings.Improve the Laws on the road and then you can drive good for us,when i get married i can hand over my car keys to my wife and ask her to drive or even my sister. Have you seen Saudi Men taking a Turn from the First Track all the way to the last.Sorry again if the words had hurted you guys.Anyway regarding the women’s stomach touching the staring wheel Come on gurls seriously i was just joking.I am not a serious guy i luv joking.@ Ayah…If there is a Cristian and he doesn’t believe in Jesus nor the Bible and he just believes in the Father,what would you call him?And he claims he is a Cristian. i would never call him a Cristian if he doesn’t believe in Jesus (p.b.u.h). I gave proof from the Qur’an which clearly stats “Believe in Allah and his messenger’ Why do we say LA ILAHA IL’LALAH MUHAMMADUR RASULLULAH(There is no God but Allah and Muhammad p.b.u.h is his messenger) when we accept Islam? We could have said There is No God But Allah and call our self Muslims.Please don’t bent the rules according to our thoughts and Desire. Believe in what Allah has commanded and stick to the Qur’an and the Hadith.If Allah dint say Obay his messenger , trust me i would never had done so.
But that’s the problem. By accusing Muslims you don’t like of disbelief, you are NOT obeying Allah and His messenger, thus, it is you who are bending the “rules” to suit yourself. Quranists believe in Allah and His Prophets, so they are by definition Muslim. As Rasulallah has told us repeatedly, it is a dire sin to accuse those who say they are Muslim of disbelief. You are ignoring hadith you don’t like, which is exactly what you accuse others of doing. Shameful. Allah Yahdik.
Why must we wait for the roads to be safer to drive? We can and do die all the time as passengers. If we are the better drivers why are we not allowed to protect ourselves?
Abdul – My point is that women need not be put on a pedastal nor be trampled. They need to be treated as equals and given equal rights. If men can drive dangerously and put their lives at peril by exercising their choice, let women also be given that choice.
Yes you are absolutely right that No one has the right to accuse any person nor should he comment if he or she going to Hell or Heaven or a practicing Muslim.However pertaining to this issue ,this is a very basic thing “There is No God but Allah and Muhammad is his last messenger”This is what the Entire Islam is based on, what we call Aqeedah, if you don’t believe in this how can you call your self a Muslim.I am not bending any “rules” here its just very very basic and first and foremost thing in Islam.For your information In India and other Asian country’s i have seen Men prostrating at the Grave, putting flowers at them,i asked them Why do they do so.They claimed that the Man in the Grave was very pious and we ask him to pass our Dua(whatever they want in particular) to Allah.I was like what Crap are you talking about.Allah asked us to pray and ask him anything directly why would you need a mediator between you and God Almighty.Now do you think I should have joined him and praised him for what they are doing?I told him what he was doing is completely against Islam and his Aqeedah has to be Firm if he calls himself a Muslim ,For Heaven sake the guy is dead.These are very basic things,if it was something else i would not comment at all like the way people pray and the way people have different Scholarly thoughts.Aqeedah is very important.We are Muslims for God Sake and this is the main Criteria for someone to be a Muslim.By the way who doesn’t believe in God the Christians the Jews all of them do however they choose Jesus ,Mosses as the last messenger and they believed in the books which was reveled to them the Taorah,Injil.A Cristian is not a Cristian if he doesn’t believe in Jesus,a Jew is not a Jew if he doesn’t believe in Mosses & a Muslim is not a Muslim if he doesn’t believe in all the Prophets including the Seal of the Prophet Muhammad P.B.U.H.May Allah guide us All and rectify our Aqeedah.
Its very simple. Whatever you leave at the airport is culture & whatever accompanies you on the airplane is your religion. e.g. guardian, abaya, head cover, thobe shimagh etc are mostly left at the airports while salah, your certain beliefs accompany you no matter wherever you go! .
Well said!
as a western woman involved with a muslim-no i’m not a convert,how do you reconcile the hypocricies shown by converts whom enjoyed xmas,easter,thanksgiving as kids but deny their own kids the same enjoyment,1 reason i have little respect for converts NOT ALL,is suddenly everything before was evil,wicked,their families are shamed into converting or at least when the convert visits everything is about their comfort.friends of mine who converted were still having pre-marital sex with the” wonderful muslim saviour ” who was telling them of the errors of their wicked western ways but have their little girls still in a stroller wearing hijab,my muslim partner continues to goad me,but if i’m practicing zina & i’m practicing with him whom allah has made superior doesn’t that mean my defiency in intelligence lays the greater guilt on him.i have with him a 7 year old girl,whom i take to a public pool,she attends a public school,& no hijab much to his annoyance,& no i will not police her when she’s older,who are we muslims or christians to enforce some kind of moral code on our kids when we ourselves didn’t adhere to them? i don’t understand how converts suddenly realise their traditions,cultures,families leave so much to be desired like why does this religion of peace tell you,that you were so unhappy before but you never realised your unhappiness until you were told.
I don’t really have any care or concern for the way that other people lead their lives, “hypocrites” or not. Each person has to answer for their own actions and choices, and I don’t think that what some converts choose to do is any of my business. That goes for your and your significant other and how you’re choosing to raise your daughter as well. I can see that you have some hostilities toward the religion and converts, probably based on your personal experieces, but I hope that you’ll look at the bigger picture and let some of that go. It can’t be healthy to be hanging onto it.
As far as why some converts go off the deep end and become different people, I would say it happens mostly with people who didn’t feel like they belonged pre conversion, and their dramatic changes are an effort to “fit in” or be the best they think they can be. Unfortunately, these are usually the people who burn out on the religion eventually.
oh dear no no hostilities my best friend is an algerian muslim woman,i actually envy her her contentment,she’wears hijab,her sisters don’t & neither does her mum,her father forward for his times hates it,her husband doesn’t care one way or the other
I just can’t stop agreeing with you U.T.A , I know where your coming from ! .. this post is brilliant , it’s really thoughtful .
Thank you, Maha!